Oh, I can imagine the time we might while away on these topics, Scott. I miss those days.
1. A Chorus Line is all about agency: the dancers don't have it; Zach, the director, does. He has THE job and all sing and dance for him. Part of the innovative success of the show is exposing the power differential in "the audition" -- including Cassie (not "Maggie," by the way) who once had some professional agency and now comes back to her former collaborator and romantic partner with hat in hand. It is particularly effective because The Music and the Mirror is largely or partly based on Donna McKechnie's own professional accomplishments and story (and showcases her talent!) up to 1975. So, "give me a chance" is the currency of A Chorus Line, with all its desperation, as much as "moral dilemma" is the mainspring of Hamlet.
2. One of the reasons to go to grad school (if one is "chosen" by the faculty) is to have an immersive experience in the discipline one hopes to make one's career. Few distractions, some guidance (whether good or bad), resources one might not have outside of grad school -- all of these are part of the currency. It's a kind of apprenticeship, and some are better than others. Can one find apprenticeships outside of grad school? Yes, if chosen or cast in some professional opportunity. Can one create this immersive experience on one's own? Some have, but like Will Hunting they probably have some day job which takes up time and provides limited income. In grad schools connections can be made, career paths can be identified, skills for the professional discipline can be developed. Some more than others. And after the degree is earned, you still have your own way to make, and will still encounter plenty of "rabbit holes."
3. I mostly agree with your conclusions and frustrations. But I also think the theater is going through immense change. And so are grad schools in theater. I have no idea where things will be in ten years. Or how one finds a career. Probably talent will out, as it always has, but there will be different pathways.
I have missed these arguments – always entertaining and stimulating.
I think we may have different understanding on the use of the word “agency.” And I remain convinced that this is the core of the action of the musical. It may be, however, that mine is a new focus for a new time. Interestingly, I just climbed into A Chorus Line recently having discovered a grainy videotape on YouTube of the original cast from 1975. It was an uncomfortable revelation. I no longer saw the show from the pov of the auditionees trying hard to impress (like I did in 1975), but from the manipulative director – the disembodied voice from the back of the theatre like some kind of burning bush. I was particularly uncomfortable by the dialogue with Sheila – as Zach tries to “soften” her by asking her to move downstage and let her hair down. “Do you want me to come sit on your lap?” is her parry. But Zach gets what he wants: a softer, more vulnerable Sheila who starts the musical’s most memorable (at least for me) number, At the Ballet. I understand why A Chorus Line irritates you, but I still think its due to the agency issues. Or non-agency of the dancers. I’m not sure, however, whether in 1975 the creators were aware of these things or not.
When I was at Tennessee, I managed to raise the stipend of the MFA designers and actors to $17,000/year with scholarships provided to defray fees. Tuition came with the assistantship. At the time, this stipend was a jump from $9500/year. Pretty significant. But we needed to compete. And the University had to hold some state-determined graduate stipend line – we augmented the state funding with contributed income. I think any good grad school should provide at least a Ramen Noodle stipend. But too many, including Illinois State, paid terrible stipends and got away with it. God knows what Julliard, Yale and NYU get away with.
Thanks for the compliments of The Living. I was proud of my work at ISU/ISF, and proud of it in Knoxville. But the whole point of the Directing MFA at ISU was the gradual complexity of the directing assignments. That’s how an MFA program is different than an internship at a professional theatre: getting a chance to do the work, to direct with greater complexity of problem, with a budget, access to actors with talent, etc. Watching Bob Falls work would be great, but it does not an MFA make. But your larger point about the costs of time and money are well taken
So, we probably agree more than disagree, but disagreeing is more fun.
The “give me” mentality is definitely annoying. I would say, though, that grad school, both times, was useful not only for the skills it taught me and the knowledge I gained, but for teaching me so many things I didn’t know I wanted and needed to know. I needed other people, with more life experience and knowledge and skill, to offer me things to explore. The rabbit holes I went down because they pointed them out to me increased my intellectual and artistic agency. As you know, I ended up teaching using this education, but it was the best possible preparation for professional directing that I could have asked for.
Yeah, I think we must have had different experiences—especially my PhD program. I felt like my brain was being pushed in all kinds of different directions I would not have found for myself—but encouraged to find my own point of view, interest, pathways. And also supported in wanting to do lots of production work. Admittedly, I think I hit an unusual sweet spot, both in terms of faculty and fellow grad students, but it’s certainly possible to have an experience that does unexpectedly wonderful things. Plus I was on assistantship in an inexpensive place,so I didn’t have much debt to pay off afterwards.
Oh, I can imagine the time we might while away on these topics, Scott. I miss those days.
1. A Chorus Line is all about agency: the dancers don't have it; Zach, the director, does. He has THE job and all sing and dance for him. Part of the innovative success of the show is exposing the power differential in "the audition" -- including Cassie (not "Maggie," by the way) who once had some professional agency and now comes back to her former collaborator and romantic partner with hat in hand. It is particularly effective because The Music and the Mirror is largely or partly based on Donna McKechnie's own professional accomplishments and story (and showcases her talent!) up to 1975. So, "give me a chance" is the currency of A Chorus Line, with all its desperation, as much as "moral dilemma" is the mainspring of Hamlet.
2. One of the reasons to go to grad school (if one is "chosen" by the faculty) is to have an immersive experience in the discipline one hopes to make one's career. Few distractions, some guidance (whether good or bad), resources one might not have outside of grad school -- all of these are part of the currency. It's a kind of apprenticeship, and some are better than others. Can one find apprenticeships outside of grad school? Yes, if chosen or cast in some professional opportunity. Can one create this immersive experience on one's own? Some have, but like Will Hunting they probably have some day job which takes up time and provides limited income. In grad schools connections can be made, career paths can be identified, skills for the professional discipline can be developed. Some more than others. And after the degree is earned, you still have your own way to make, and will still encounter plenty of "rabbit holes."
3. I mostly agree with your conclusions and frustrations. But I also think the theater is going through immense change. And so are grad schools in theater. I have no idea where things will be in ten years. Or how one finds a career. Probably talent will out, as it always has, but there will be different pathways.
I have missed these arguments – always entertaining and stimulating.
I think we may have different understanding on the use of the word “agency.” And I remain convinced that this is the core of the action of the musical. It may be, however, that mine is a new focus for a new time. Interestingly, I just climbed into A Chorus Line recently having discovered a grainy videotape on YouTube of the original cast from 1975. It was an uncomfortable revelation. I no longer saw the show from the pov of the auditionees trying hard to impress (like I did in 1975), but from the manipulative director – the disembodied voice from the back of the theatre like some kind of burning bush. I was particularly uncomfortable by the dialogue with Sheila – as Zach tries to “soften” her by asking her to move downstage and let her hair down. “Do you want me to come sit on your lap?” is her parry. But Zach gets what he wants: a softer, more vulnerable Sheila who starts the musical’s most memorable (at least for me) number, At the Ballet. I understand why A Chorus Line irritates you, but I still think its due to the agency issues. Or non-agency of the dancers. I’m not sure, however, whether in 1975 the creators were aware of these things or not.
When I was at Tennessee, I managed to raise the stipend of the MFA designers and actors to $17,000/year with scholarships provided to defray fees. Tuition came with the assistantship. At the time, this stipend was a jump from $9500/year. Pretty significant. But we needed to compete. And the University had to hold some state-determined graduate stipend line – we augmented the state funding with contributed income. I think any good grad school should provide at least a Ramen Noodle stipend. But too many, including Illinois State, paid terrible stipends and got away with it. God knows what Julliard, Yale and NYU get away with.
Thanks for the compliments of The Living. I was proud of my work at ISU/ISF, and proud of it in Knoxville. But the whole point of the Directing MFA at ISU was the gradual complexity of the directing assignments. That’s how an MFA program is different than an internship at a professional theatre: getting a chance to do the work, to direct with greater complexity of problem, with a budget, access to actors with talent, etc. Watching Bob Falls work would be great, but it does not an MFA make. But your larger point about the costs of time and money are well taken
So, we probably agree more than disagree, but disagreeing is more fun.
We should have a beer again.
The “give me” mentality is definitely annoying. I would say, though, that grad school, both times, was useful not only for the skills it taught me and the knowledge I gained, but for teaching me so many things I didn’t know I wanted and needed to know. I needed other people, with more life experience and knowledge and skill, to offer me things to explore. The rabbit holes I went down because they pointed them out to me increased my intellectual and artistic agency. As you know, I ended up teaching using this education, but it was the best possible preparation for professional directing that I could have asked for.
Yeah, I think we must have had different experiences—especially my PhD program. I felt like my brain was being pushed in all kinds of different directions I would not have found for myself—but encouraged to find my own point of view, interest, pathways. And also supported in wanting to do lots of production work. Admittedly, I think I hit an unusual sweet spot, both in terms of faculty and fellow grad students, but it’s certainly possible to have an experience that does unexpectedly wonderful things. Plus I was on assistantship in an inexpensive place,so I didn’t have much debt to pay off afterwards.
Fun reconnecting with you!